tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post3159090841759687625..comments2024-03-28T20:47:47.445-04:00Comments on Serene Musings: Hell: The Disgrace of ChristianityScotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-40724832476809015192007-03-08T10:39:00.000-05:002007-03-08T10:39:00.000-05:00Hooch: Why does having no promise of eternal life ...Hooch: Why does having no promise of eternal life through Jesus mean that life is pointless? The purpose of life is to survive. That's what species do. No, that's not comforting, but neither is the fact that young children get murdered every day -- but that doesn't change the fact that it's true. Either way, the "life is pointless without a God" argument doesn't address the implication that you (and, presumably, other Christians) lead moral, upstanding lives ONLY because of your hope in Jesus. I mean, wasn't Ghandi pretty moral? How about countless other non-Christian examples one could name? Morality and Christianity don't go hand in hand. I know as many immoral Christians as I know moral atheists/agnostics. There is no connection between the two. If you would lead an immoral life without belief in Jesus, then I say your morality is in vain, because it's faked. I don't need Jesus, God, or any other supernatural concept in order to act morally. I act morally because it is the responsible and human thing to do. Now, as for your comments about hell vs. heaven, I do tend to agree with you there...I do conceive of heaven as eternal communion with God, and Hell as eternal separation from God. But I don't conceive of those things as physical places, nor do I conceive of them as a means of meting out reward and punishment by a capricious supernatural fairy. We choose whether or not to be in communion with God or not be in communion with God. And those are broad definitions that can include many different personal spiritual philsophies. Human theologies have nothing to do with it, in my opinion.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-84640241210378074272007-03-08T09:53:00.000-05:002007-03-08T09:53:00.000-05:00I NEVER accused you of being immoral or that you a...I NEVER accused you of being immoral or that you are that way. I was just stating how I believed. If I implied that is how you should be, I sincerely apologize. I did not mean to come across as smug in anyway. I thought this was a light-hearted discussion about religious issues and did not intend for anyone to get fired up, although I realize that can happen easily when discussing religion and faith. Trust me, Scott and I have almost killed each other at least five times that I can think of.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-3337302580188052322007-03-08T09:30:00.000-05:002007-03-08T09:30:00.000-05:00Personally, I am very offended at the suggestion t...Personally, I am very offended at the suggestion that because I'm agnostic I might as well be immoral as well. I don't steal, I try my best not to lie, I don't sleep with other people behind my partner's back, and I don't know if there is a God. That doesn't make me a bad person, and I resent the implication that it would. THIS is the reason that I continue to be completely soured on organized religion. I can't stand the smug piety of it all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-31665520545411058572007-03-08T08:23:00.000-05:002007-03-08T08:23:00.000-05:00Liar, liar, you're pants are made out of brimstone...Liar, liar, you're pants are made out of brimstone. The choices I make are out of a devotion to Christ, not a fear of hell. I want to live in service to Him because I believe that He gave His life for me so that I can live for forever. For me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. I understand your point on morality, but to me if there is nothing past this life, there is not much worth living for. You just become a worm feast. This is a great argument however and we've not even brought up on why many Christians want to believe that hell is nothing but fire and pitchforks. We know about as much about hell as we do about heaven, and I don't believe that heaven is clouds, harps, and halos either. I think that best 'man' can do is to say heaven is eternal life with Christ/God and hell is eternal separation from him. Although I do believe there is suffering, as described by the Lazarus story in Scripture. Oh, and Patti, I'm really not that bad of a guy although I really do love showtunes. This has to be a musings record for snide remarks. Congrats!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-6687980243206672192007-03-07T17:23:00.000-05:002007-03-07T17:23:00.000-05:00For him, I'll make an exception about Hell..show t...For him, I'll make an exception about Hell..show tunes are definitely of the Debbil!!!<BR/><BR/>J/K (I hope you realize that without me typing , but you never know....)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02112089539976490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-41219240925076183482007-03-07T15:52:00.000-05:002007-03-07T15:52:00.000-05:00Patti, Anon is capable of a lot of evil. He liste...Patti, Anon is capable of a lot of evil. He listens to show tunes, for god's sake.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-54345807541434939412007-03-07T14:51:00.000-05:002007-03-07T14:51:00.000-05:00I'll agree with you, Scott, that morality is inbor...I'll agree with you, Scott, that morality is inborn, as our sense of the religious may be. Morals make it easier for us to survive, and so the meme itself survives and is passed on. <BR/><BR/>It's evolution.<BR/><BR/>And Anon, honey...I don't want to know you. If the only reason you aren't a criminal is that some Invisible Man is telling you that he'll barbeque you if you do those things, what would you be capable of in a moment of doubt?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02112089539976490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-84733531079561608022007-03-07T13:32:00.000-05:002007-03-07T13:32:00.000-05:00Patti: If your scenario is right, then I'll see yo...Patti: If your scenario is right, then I'll see you in hell :) <BR/>Hooch: So you are saying that you have no sense of morality, beyond what your concept of God teaches you to have? What I mean is, if you weren't a Christian, why would that mean you'd be at the strip club, cheating on your wife, doing every immoral thing you could think of? Morality and religion are mutually exclusive. Morality doesn't come from a religious belief. It is an inborn emotion. You either choose to live an upstanding and moral life, or you choose not to. Religion has very little to do with it. As for claiming that its as simple as either believing Christ or not believing Christ -- no, it isn't that simple. The lack of simplicity, I would think, is illustrated by this article. How can God be all-loving, and still damn the majority of his creation to eternal torment and suffering? There is nothing simple about Christianity, unless one makes the conscious choice to bury one's head in the sand -- something that most Christians, in fact, do.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-91621252321207398862007-03-07T13:19:00.000-05:002007-03-07T13:19:00.000-05:00Once again, either you believe Christ you don't. ...Once again, either you believe Christ you don't. He was who he said he was or he wasn't. Why create some spiritual new age religion that makes you feel good by using some things he said but not all? If I thought that Christ was a lunatic, I'd be at a strip club right now, cheating on my wife and getting trashed, while stealing money from my employer or an outright bank. By insisting that your way of thinking is right and that everyone else is dishonest (lying), you make yourself as close minded as the conservatives that you despise...other than myself of course. Don't you just love this? It's a shame we didn't do more of this in college.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-91058422389163285542007-03-07T12:58:00.000-05:002007-03-07T12:58:00.000-05:00Scott...What if the Deity exists as shown in the B...Scott...<BR/><BR/>What if the Deity exists as shown in the Bible? What if he really is a vicious monster who enjoys the sound of humans in pain, and who will use any means he can justify to himself to torture them? What if he really thinks that torture for all eternity is just?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02112089539976490759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-27137983243877485722007-03-07T08:45:00.000-05:002007-03-07T08:45:00.000-05:00Well, there are other schools of thought, and some...Well, there are other schools of thought, and some of the people who abide by those schools of thought may have educations, but those schools of thought are intellectually dishonest on every level, as I've attempted to illustrate in this article.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-24409992763543879452007-03-07T07:42:00.000-05:002007-03-07T07:42:00.000-05:00As expected in cases related to religion, I disagr...As expected in cases related to religion, I disagree with everything that you say. However, I have neither the time or talents to write a formulative response (or 'musing' if you will) to someone of such high intellect and writing prose. To the thousands that read this gifted writer's essays each weeek...just know that there are other educated schools of thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-27977711725565487492007-03-06T16:13:00.000-05:002007-03-06T16:13:00.000-05:00Wonderful. You should write a book about this stu...Wonderful. You should write a book about this stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com