tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post4229833383919127798..comments2024-03-28T20:47:47.445-04:00Comments on Serene Musings: A Den of RobbersScotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-88526129676491238922024-03-28T20:47:47.445-04:002024-03-28T20:47:47.445-04:00Thank you, this was very eye-opening, and I agree ...Thank you, this was very eye-opening, and I agree with your exegesis. "Shedder of blood" makes more sense to me vs. another interpretation I just heard, as "shredder" or "burster" as in a violent carnivorous animal like a lion - I'll accept "predator" in this context of oppression, but I think it goes too far to suggest that we have to be vegetarians. Yes, tame the lion within - the power-hungry ego, violent tendencies, passions, etc., but I doubt that means stop eating meat. Symbols are metaphors, don't be too literal.<br /><br />And den or cave as in a place to hide, a hideout... Yeshua's teachings were all about the pure intent of the heart and one's spiritual relationship with God, and it makes sense that the "cleansing of the Temple" was calling out the religious leadership and merchant-participants in the perpetuation of the oppressive sacrificial system. Not only could most poor people little afford these required rites, but this system was effectively turning everyone in the Temple into those who "hid" in the Temple, believing that the sacrifices made them right again with God, and then they went back out into the world to sin all over again. It's the cup that's clean on the outside but a filthy, corrupt sepulcher of bones on the inside. The Sadducees/priests had abandoned the mystical aspects of Temple rites; they were "realists" who didn't believe in any afterlife. So in the perception of many, including Yeshua, they were corrupt because they lacked spirit or the mystical connection with God. The shekinah/ presence/ spirit of God had departed from the Holy of Holies, it was empty, truly (altho' the emptiness was to be symbolic of the invisible God; but to those who opposed the Jerusalem leaders, the Holy of Holies was truly vacated). I think this goes hand in hand with Yeshua's teaching found in Luke 11:52 “Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge (or the Kingdom). You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering (or who wanted/tried to enter).” (See also the G. of Thomas logion 39.) The religious leaders and experts in the Law had removed the mystical aspect of worship/spirituality - the key to the Kingdom - and said the Law of Moses was enough. Along with their collusion with Rome, THIS was a big reason why other sects of Jews (Essenes, Nazarenes, etc. - keepers of the Way) opposed the Jerusalem priesthood and religious leaders/teachers. The key to knowledge/the Kingdom gives people freedom and power - the last thing the leaders wanted the masses to have. This is still true today in most organized religions!<br /><br />And yes, Yeshua was against the sacrifice of animals, or ANY sacrifice - which would include grains/plants as sacrifices as well. It's not sacrifice that God desires. So it doesn't necessarily mean Yeshua was a vegetarian! He probably didn't eat meat very often, but I bet if he was a dinner guest, he ate what he was served, or it might have seemed rude to the host. Yeshua was called, or he himself alluded to the fact that he was called, "a glutton and a drunkard" - he didn't fast, he feasted - as an oft-invited dinner guest, so I would bet he ate lamb and beef when it was served. I do think he would have cared that the animals were raised with kindness and slaughtered humanely. As one who taught not to judge, he might have chosen his own meals to be meatless, but he would not have judged others who ate or served meat to guests. <br /><br />Thanks again, this was an excellent post, glad to have found you!lightseekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06735628202935418616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-79190663643705496862024-03-23T13:45:19.208-04:002024-03-23T13:45:19.208-04:00I don't personally believe Jesus would've ...I don't personally believe Jesus would've had vegetarian tendencies. Vegetarianism is the privilege of the well-to-do. As an illiterate Galilean peasant, Jesus probably didn't eat a whole lot of meat, but it wouldn't have been because of concerns about slaughtering animals. He was a devout Jew and would've seen the ritual slaughter of sacrificial animals as a proper way to worship God. Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-49585177800489284332024-03-21T03:42:54.220-04:002024-03-21T03:42:54.220-04:00If Gods original diet intended fruit & vegetab...If Gods original diet intended fruit & vegetables bearing seeds, was Jesus not horrified at the slaughtering of animals we are suppose to have stewardship (dominion) over? Robbers, violence, killing..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-91764836671736450022022-02-22T09:19:37.495-05:002022-02-22T09:19:37.495-05:00Brilliant right up. Thank you for sharing.Brilliant right up. Thank you for sharing.MC Mundiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05655975224300172441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-47239021069642595692020-03-19T03:25:31.925-04:002020-03-19T03:25:31.925-04:00Thanks for all your inspiration and challenges. Ch...Thanks for all your inspiration and challenges. Church is not a hiding place for our bad deeds, but it's a open place for all to come closer to God and His people. In Matthew 5:24 suggests precautionary measure to follow. ThanksVasant Deodharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17620859320665016226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-35341425101980314742018-06-19T23:04:09.145-04:002018-06-19T23:04:09.145-04:00The entire incident of the so-called "Cleanin...The entire incident of the so-called "Cleaning of the Temple" is ironic.<br />The prophet may have said that the Temple should be a place for all people but in the time of Jesus, there were limits beyond which a gentile might go. The LESTOI, the so-called "robbers" were really Zealots who were the Jewish freedom fighters of the era. The Romans called them<br />"brigands", equivalent to what we today call "terrorists". The zealots were unhappy with the Temple clergy whom they perceived as being in cahoots with the Roman authorities. Jesus, as a Galilean, would be sympathetic to the Zealot cause. He blamed the Temple authorities for making it necessary for the Zealots to occupy the Temple and keep foreigners out. Shlomoh Shermannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-35834487404346126702018-04-30T04:54:36.312-04:002018-04-30T04:54:36.312-04:00Hi Scott,
Nice one you got here. Yes, it is consis...Hi Scott,<br />Nice one you got here. Yes, it is consistent to Jesus' preaching against Pharisees, Publicans, tax collectors - those who are in power and get more than what is supposed to be.<br />A lot of churches nowadays involuntarily (really?) practice it. Examples are overpriced and compulsory sales of t-shirts, records, trinkets all in the name of church fund-raising drives.Bonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12727575845779625392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-14630951598715655442014-02-13T11:56:25.468-05:002014-02-13T11:56:25.468-05:00Yes, that's true, Anonymous, about the distort...Yes, that's true, Anonymous, about the distortion of English-language scripture, ESPECIALLY the King James Version. It's sad that so many people don't realize just how much distortion of the original language of the Bible exists in modern English translations. Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-36884123295640571122014-02-13T11:54:08.104-05:002014-02-13T11:54:08.104-05:00Good point, David. Thanks for leaving a comment. ...Good point, David. Thanks for leaving a comment. Within the context of Jesus's actions and words, as well as his overall body of teaching, I think Jesus scattered the money changers because to him they represented the economic oppression perpetrated on the Jewish people by the Temple authorities. <br /><br />Jeremiah, Isaiah, and numerous other prophets consistently condemned the Temple elite for sacrificing and praying in the Temple while simultaneously ignoring the plight of the average person. <br /><br />In the first chapter of Isaiah, God states to the Temple elite: "Your multitude of sacrifices...what are they to me?...stop bringing me meaningless offerings...when you offer many prayers, I am not listening." <br /><br />Why does God say this? Because "You are a brood of evildoers, full of corruption...and your hands are full of blood." <br /><br />In other words, as Jeremiah would say later in a similar context, you oppress God's people, then go hide out in the Temple and think your sacrifices and prayers are all that matter. <br /><br />So, when Jesus cleared out the moneychangers, I think he was reacting against the notion of selling animals for a profit to poor people who were already oppressed in numerous ways. <br /><br />It doesn't feel good to modern American capitalism, but Jesus was no capitalist. Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-52230108030852139242014-02-12T15:36:38.046-05:002014-02-12T15:36:38.046-05:00"...how did we not see that before." To ..."...how did we not see that before." To a large extent, such things are because the authorities didn't want you to see it that way. Look at the distortion and outright lies about women not being allowed to be deacons and pastors. King Jimmy and his boys were already established in their male-led church. So when they came to "deaconas" in Greek referring to a woman, they simply translated it as "helper". Well, you get the point. Misinterpretation and misapplication of scripture for unethical purposes is a 2000-year old practice that is alive and well today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-22060965469805430312014-02-12T15:25:27.787-05:002014-02-12T15:25:27.787-05:00Only a layman trying to understand the text, I ask...Only a layman trying to understand the text, I ask how Jesus' actions support your non-condemnation of the merchants and money-changers. Jesus through them out! <br />I agree that the Chief Priests and scribes are being judged for misrepresenting the LORD, and they are making the temple a hideout for themselves. Jesus' statements are predicated on his actions. So it seems to me in the context. David Sironihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11348144263890536848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-68705633554088167032010-06-09T00:36:43.682-04:002010-06-09T00:36:43.682-04:00Thanks Jeff. You know I always do my homework :)...Thanks Jeff. You know I always do my homework :)Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-86090507051518928332010-06-07T09:38:23.133-04:002010-06-07T09:38:23.133-04:00Hmm -- someone has done a little homework. Very we...Hmm -- someone has done a little homework. Very well written and explained of course. I think the point you make is a great cause for introspection and questioning by the "church" and those involved with it.Jeff Presleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17510411619200585335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-52060457256769586182010-06-06T23:57:12.300-04:002010-06-06T23:57:12.300-04:00Thanks Allen. J.D. Crossan is the first scholar t...Thanks Allen. J.D. Crossan is the first scholar that brought this issue of "den of robbers" to my attention, and once I saw what he was talking about, it was like one of those "Duh" moments where you slap your head and think "How did I not see that before?"Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-45108008449945972212010-06-06T09:44:07.450-04:002010-06-06T09:44:07.450-04:00Nice exegete on this one. And as far as your last...Nice exegete on this one. And as far as your last line, that's a good one for the church to think about. I hope it's not a haven for those who would pervert the Truth, now more than ever.Rev. Allen C.http://adiaphthoria.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com