tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post6261906698569337552..comments2024-03-23T13:45:19.208-04:00Comments on Serene Musings: An Argument Against Biblical InerrancyScotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-38666653702126164292021-06-07T17:10:33.862-04:002021-06-07T17:10:33.862-04:00Well, nobody has access to the original manuscript...Well, nobody has access to the original manuscripts, because they no longer exist. The earliest copies we have of any New Testament texts are from more than a hundred years after the originals. Also, all the books of the New Testament were originally written in Greek, not Hebrew or Aramaic. <br /><br />In any case, none of that has anything to do with the argument I made in the post. Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-15058478438171502222021-06-07T08:34:13.594-04:002021-06-07T08:34:13.594-04:00I will read the attached article.
But, if the wo...I will read the attached article. <br /><br />But, if the word is to be taught to all for the purpose of Leading all to Christ, how many of our preachers, ministers, evangelists and regular church goer have access to the original manuscripts, plus have the ability to read Hebrew and more importantly, Amaraic?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-13921341054078384522012-11-24T21:26:35.429-05:002012-11-24T21:26:35.429-05:00Thanks for the question, Anonymous. There are a c...Thanks for the question, Anonymous. There are a couple of problems to be faced with your suggestion. <br /><br />To begin with, it seems a bit like trying to connect dots that simply aren't there. Paul's passage is very straightforward. He says Jesus died, was buried, rose on the third day, then appeared to Peter, then to the 12, and later to more than 500 people at once. It is abundantly clear what Paul means by "the 12." He differentiates those 12 men from everyone else because they were a known and recognized group - the inner circle of Jesus' disciples. <br /><br />To make mental stretches by supposing that maybe he was thinking of Mattias because Mattias was there, but hadn't been elected yet, but would later be elected, and thus become one of the 12.....Well, it seems like mental gymnastics. <br /><br />The second problem is Luke's corresponding words in the book of Acts. He tells us that the remaining disciples (the 11) saw Jesus a final time, then Jesus went up into heaven. After Jesus disappeared, two angels come and speak with them. Then, the 11 walk from the Mount of Olives back into Jerusalem and go up into a room where they have been staying. Luke, at this point, tells us explicitly who was there - he names each of the 11 remaining disciples. <br /><br />THEN, after an uncertain period of time ("in those days"), they decide to elect a replacement and choose Mattias. <br /><br />Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-4870501062154159342012-11-22T20:20:54.652-05:002012-11-22T20:20:54.652-05:00Could it not be, though Mattias was not a disciple...Could it not be, though Mattias was not a disciple yet, that he could have been there. He saw Jesus ascend and then Paul would still be speaking truth? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-50098929573708733482012-09-15T09:55:38.383-04:002012-09-15T09:55:38.383-04:00It's true that the gospels don't necessari...It's true that the gospels don't necessarily depict a chronological view of Jesus's life. However, in the case of the Judas stories, the narratives are pretty explicit.<br /><br />Matthew tells us Judas hung himself after Jesus was arrested. This happens explicitly while Jesus is being interrogated by Pilate. See Matthew 27: "Early in the morning," Judas is filled with remorse and then goes out to hang himself. "Meanwhile," Jesus is with Pilate. Those are Matthew's narrative words, implying very strongly that he intends his readers to understand that Judas is now dead.<br /><br />Thanks for commenting and adding to the discussion! Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-71026389700897429072012-09-12T03:19:27.922-04:002012-09-12T03:19:27.922-04:00Could it be that Jesus appeared to Judas as "...Could it be that Jesus appeared to Judas as "one of the twelve" causing him to hang himself, and then his body having fallen and split open? <br /><br />Having seen Jesus risen from the grave after betraying him could have caused Judas (or anyone for that matter) to hang himself as a result of guilt and remorse. <br /><br />Matthew is written not chronologically but thematically, so to read the book as if it were written chronologically could be misleading.hensonatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11253937979824296315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-8616899825046227012011-03-09T23:06:13.387-05:002011-03-09T23:06:13.387-05:00Thanks for sharing your perspective, Anon, and for...Thanks for sharing your perspective, Anon, and for reading the post.<br /><br />The argument I would make against your assertion is simply that Acts tells us explicitly that the replacement disciple - Mattias - was not elected until after the resurrected Jesus had ascended into heaven - thus ending his resurrection appearances.<br /><br />Therefore, Mattias can't have been present for any resurrection appearances as part of the 12. Furthermore, remember that the gospels all universally agree that the resurrection appearances involved the "11," not the "12."Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-53380135512573121502011-03-09T20:56:44.520-05:002011-03-09T20:56:44.520-05:00Was researching arguments for and against inerranc...Was researching arguments for and against inerrancy and came across this post. While I do believe that there are many solid arguments against the doctrine of inerrancy, I don't necessarily believe this is one. The apostles were convinced that there should be 12 apostles, even after the betrayal and death of Judas. They take a vote and nominate a replacement in Acts. (Acts 1;15-17, 20-22)It would be completely logical, and even expected, for the individual who replaced Judas to be present when Jesus made his post-resurrection appearances. The idea of "the 12" stayed intact even after Judas made his exit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-65330811631325511462010-10-03T23:02:44.496-04:002010-10-03T23:02:44.496-04:00Thanks for commenting, Ruth. I agree about how ph...Thanks for commenting, Ruth. I agree about how philology and linguistics are frequently overlooked in these discussions. <br /><br />In my own independent research, I follow the original Greek of the New Testament, for which I have a toolbar link right on my web browser.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-1883046262281327032010-10-03T21:28:18.677-04:002010-10-03T21:28:18.677-04:00I was researching Biblical Inerrancy for a project...I was researching Biblical Inerrancy for a project and came across this post. I noticed someone commented about the discrepancies between Genesis 1 and 2. Perhaps this will help: http://www.tektonics.org/jedp/creationtwo.html.<br /><br />One thing that is important to remember in regards to Biblical analysis, especially on such a detailed level as described in this post, is that it was not originally written in English. When anything is translated from one language to another, the meaning can tend to change just a little. For example, in Chinese the word "ma fan" is difficult to translate into English because of all the different usages and meanings it has. So generally it is said to mean "troublesome." However, it has more to it than just that one English word. It is an idea in my mind that is difficult to sum up in one English word. Does that make the translation of "troublesome" wrong? No. It is just limited. That is why there are so many different translations of the Bible. Different people find a different way to translate the ideas from the Greek and Hebrew into English. So, in closing, I would just caution all of you to be careful about dealing with a translation. Get into the original language and find out what is really being said. English semantics is a difficult and rocky terrain even for native English speakers. Don't judge too harshly.Ruth Camburn.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11563410429572487250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-43487707199811499202009-07-09T22:50:17.941-04:002009-07-09T22:50:17.941-04:00Yeah, there are literally dozens of places like th...Yeah, there are literally dozens of places like that where direct contradictions can be pointed out. The two Genesis creation stories are another prime example.<br /><br />For me, the existence of contradictions doesn't mean the Bible is valueless, it just means that it was written by human beings who are fallible. It also shows (in cases like the creation accounts) that the Bible has multiple layers of tradition superimposed and fused together. <br /><br />Anyone who claims that the Bible is infallible has probably not read much of it.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-10840452680294769382009-07-09T09:08:28.192-04:002009-07-09T09:08:28.192-04:00In fact, there are enormous numbers of places wher...In fact, there are enormous numbers of places where such contradictions exist in the Bible. Those who want to claim "inerrancy" for the Bible are in fact nothing more than DISHONEST! But that has never stopped them from promulgating their self-made lies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-41428223123015015082009-07-08T20:47:51.541-04:002009-07-08T20:47:51.541-04:00There is a better argument against biblical inerra...There is a better argument against biblical inerrancy. In Genesis 1:25-27, God first creates animals, then man. In Genesis 2:18-24, God first creates man and then, in an effort to make a suitable partner for man, creates the animals. People who believe in the literal truth of the Bible haven't even read the first two pages!Hauser & San Vicentehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04379706343885931528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-86750330121827039012009-03-25T08:50:00.000-04:002009-03-25T08:50:00.000-04:00This passage where Paul "sets the record straight"...This passage where Paul "sets the record straight" concerning who is "talking here" points out the utter rididulous nature of the "Robot Theory or Mechanical Theory of Inspiration"; the Theory that God moved over the writer, taking his hand and his writing implement under Her complete control, inscribing exactly point for point, word for word what She wanted the writer to write. The inerrantist have this concept, even when they don't realize it and it is absurd, like much of their other "theology". They continually create God in THEIR own image. The God(s) of the Bible has(ve) little to NO resemblance to the one they've created. <BR/><BR/>TRUTH has never been their goal in life. Only power through indoctrination. As a very committed SBC former pastor said in my hearing a number of years ago while speaking to the youth of the church, "Shoot your arrow toward TRUTH, not ORTHODOXY! They are seldom the same thing!" I never heard more honest words spoken from a pulpit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-48746205401026703322009-03-25T00:08:00.000-04:002009-03-25T00:08:00.000-04:00That's an interesting point, PS. Never really con...That's an interesting point, PS. Never really considered that passage from that angle before. You're exactly right, of course.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-80619112678715440782009-03-24T12:28:00.000-04:002009-03-24T12:28:00.000-04:00Excellent...as ALWAYS!Paul in another passage...do...Excellent...as ALWAYS!<BR/><BR/>Paul in another passage...don't have it in front of me right now....admits that he is the fallible writer of the letters. He says (paraphrase), "this is from God". Then later, about a different passage he says, in effect..."This is Paul speaking". If God was moving Paul's hands and writing tools to state EXACTLY what he wanted him to write, then this admission of his own "humanity" would not have been necessary. Further, God could have just picked up the "quill" herself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-17850695561165389522009-03-23T23:11:00.000-04:002009-03-23T23:11:00.000-04:00Anon: Thanks for reading and posting. We'll have ...Anon: Thanks for reading and posting. We'll have to agree to disagree that "and then to the twelve" was a figure of speech. <BR/><BR/>I could just as easily argue that the resurrection language is a figure of speech for spiritual awakening too, if we're going in that direction.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10535260741343975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29179803.post-53878247694201905972009-03-21T13:57:00.000-04:002009-03-21T13:57:00.000-04:00In its context, in the original language "and then...In its context, in the original language "and then to the twelve" literally means -- in the plain sense -- the disciples. <BR/><BR/>It’s called a figure of speech, and has no bearing on the inerrancy of Scripture.<BR/><BR/>The inerrant view of Scripture does not mean that it precludes using language elements like figures of speech. <BR/><BR/>http://www.bible-researcher.com/chicago1.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com